Differences between the two Gestalt Consciousness Government types (2024)

Urloc the Great

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  • May 20, 2019
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  • #1

I want to create a list of the open and hidden (i.e. not shown in the wiki) differences between Machine Empires and Hive Empires. Can you help me?

So far I've found out:

General Government bonus:Hive

: 25% Pop Growth speed

Machine

: One extra Pop on new colony, 10% Mining Station output, Outposts cost 150 Alloys instead of 100

Interacting with citizens from other non-Gestalt Empires:Hive

: Livestock, with Genetic Ascension is able to nerve staple or even integrate their pops.

Machine

: Batteries (like Livestock, but the resource you get is energy instead of food), no Ascension path (can't nerve staple slaves for easier happiness handling)

Starting Planet:

Hive: Like regular Empires, they get a blocker that upon removal gives a free pop unit.

Machine: Instead of the free pop they get a modifier for 10% more Society research. (However, terraforming the planet removes this modifier.)

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Piotrzeci

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  • May 20, 2019
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  • #2

They have different civics (including special ones), different way of getting new pops, Hiveminds can follow an Ascension path, different special planet terraformation etc.

Sifer2

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  • May 21, 2019
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  • #4

the glory of plain said:

machine are very difficult to use
even the strongest assimilator have cyborg on machine world problem
amenity and crime require too many pop and building to maintain for both machine and hive mind

I disagree I find them really simplistic. Very easy to snowball with them as you only need to focus on producing tons of Alloys for war or tons of Research Labs for tech rush. Having to build one Maintenance building per planet to solve amenities hardly seems like too much to ask to never have to deal with consumer goods at all.

Secret Master

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  • May 21, 2019
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MEs were in much worse straits when Megacorp released. They play much easier now. I remember when you needed a lot more amenities for your bots.

Egodeus

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  • May 21, 2019
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  • #6

Machine pops produce a bit more resources per job
Hive empires basic districts (mining/farm/generator) produce three jobs instead of two.

Sigma 582

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  • May 21, 2019
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  • #7

metalhead metallurgists have higher throughput than fleshy ones.

MEs capital buildings give extra replicator jobs when upgraded, i.e. planetary growth speed increases when there are more pops on the planet. For meatbags there's nothing like that, you just build spawning pools in 5-pop slot.

Urloc the Great

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  • May 21, 2019
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  • #8

Added differences in starting planets.

Not sure if I should add Machine/Hive Worlds to the list as they seem to be the same thing/have the same function. The only difference besides the beautiful artwork is that Hive Worlds have farms, while Machine Worlds do not.

Martydi

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  • Jun 11, 2019
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  • #9

Urloc the Great said:

Added differences in starting planets.

Not sure if I should add Machine/Hive Worlds to the list as they seem to be the same thing/have the same function. The only difference besides the beautiful artwork is that Hive Worlds have farms, while Machine Worlds do not.

Well, hive worlds can only be inhabited by hive minded species, machien worlds can be inhabited by machine species and by cyborgs, although cyborgs have extremely low habitability. I am not sure, but possibly machine worlds might be occupied and used by synthetic pops (important difference, machine pops and synthetic pops are different things), but I am extremely unsure on that one. It would make sense, but I haven't yet found anything to suport this making sense.

Tech Noir Synth

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  • Jun 11, 2019
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  • #10

Well you are asking for something that I have been doing for the last couple of weeks, so you should simply read through most of my post and you will be able to gather pretty much everything.

Things to note are for example:

  • Hive having 3 raw ressource jobs per districts instead of 2 for Machine empires
  • Hive having 6 housing per housing districts instead of 5 housing +1 Maintenance Drone job +1 Tech Drone job for Machine empire
  • Machine empire getting +1% Menial Drone output per Coordinator, +1 of each research and +3 unity vs no menial drone outpu bonus, +3 society and +3 unity per Synapse Drone for Hive
  • Machine empires getting +2 housing per maintenance depot thanks to tradition, Hive only getting +2 housing per Synapse Node (weakest bonus for this perk in the entire game, as you can only build one on each planet, nonon-gestalt bonus is +1 housing for planetary capital and +1 for housing building)
  • Hive getting planetary prospecting from adaptability which is almost always useless as you turn everything into Hive worlds anyway unless you get a little lucky with some rare ressource deposit (not worth using at all), Machine empires get refund for buildings
  • Hive worlds do not get a 10% reduced housing usage, so in straight up comparison they offer less for the same cost
  • Machine empires produce 6 energy and 4 food, non-gestalt and non-Synth empires produce 6 food and 4 energy base
  • Both Gestalt have huge problems with deviancy (their crime variant) in the lategame. The tradition only reduces deviancy by a flat 10 which is very weak compared to non gestalt
  • Non-gestalt empires benefit from crime: Get crime to 10% by unemploying enforcer -> enact crime lord deal = free 10 stability for 25 influence for the rest of the game, employ enforcer again

Machine empires get immortal leaders and ruler, Hiveminds only immortal ruler. Neither get any access to agendas or any level up bonuses from their Ruler which means you miss out on a ton of possible bonuses like 10% research speed and many other things

Driven Assimilator grow faster at max growth than Devouring Swarm from my testing

Machine empires have way better (non genocidal) civics like rapid replicator and rockbreakers. Hiveminds only have Devouring Swarm as a good civic. The rest are mediocre, incredibly outdated and used to be identical with non-gestalt civics. But non-gestalt civics were entirely reworked, Technocracy for example is now top tier, Warrior culture just recently got a big buff, but Strength of Legions got no change at all in comparison. So Hiveminds lack any powerful non-genocidal civic compared to other empires.

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Tech Noir Synth

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  • Jun 11, 2019
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  • #11

the glory of plain said:

even the strongest assimilator have cyborg on machine world problem

You didn't read the patchnotes, did you? Driven Assimilators received a huge buff, they were already one of the strongest empires in 2.2.7, way better than any Hivemind. Their Cyborgs can live on Machine worlds now. They used to not be able to.

Having a 2nd species type allows for even more trait points and thus more job output overall. Furthermore, You can cheat the game out of 2 free extra trait point for Cyborgs. You can take decadent and deviants on your Cyborgs which has 0 impact on your empire because you are Gestalt. And the Cyborg trait is free aswell while other empires need an ascencion perk and tons of research to unlock it.

Also yes, Synthethics and non-gestalt Robots can live on Machine worlds and grow if you conquer them. I have done so in 2.2.7

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